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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013, 14:02 
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lucianm Quote:
yux_mm Quote:
firestarter Quote:
...Marchione nu stie sa faca masini insa este probabil cel mai bun manager al industriei auto pe timp de criza...
Ar face bine sa puna mana sa invete sa faca si masini, pentru ca la un moment dat clientul se va prinde ca e cam de kko ce se intampla si se va indrepta catre alte produse la preturi similare dar care arata mai bine si fac treaba mai bine. Si zic asta pentru ca Fiaturile in testele comparative ies pe la coada, Alfa...nu prea are cu ce concura, Lancia...ce sa zic, e ca si inexistenta, Quattroporte nu este top, e sus da nu e top.
Si, in plus, ce alte grupuri auto au mai fost in dificultate majora in 2012? Ca de VAG, de Toyota, de GM, de Ford, etc, am auzit numai de bine. Daca Marchionne e un geniu, atunci Piech e Dumnezeu coborat pe Pamant!
De fapt e un geniu, in comparatie cu el insusi: face masini de kk si reuseste, totusi, sa le vanda... :smart:
Lucian, nu stiu ce cauta Ford in enumerarile tale. Au pierderi mari in Europa, dau oamenii afara si inchid fabricile.
VAG traieste din vanzarile facute in Asia dar inca vinde bine si in Europa. Daca se bazau insa doar pe piata de aici, aveau aceleasi probleme ca si restul. Toyota, cu toate boicoturile americanilor, vinde in continuare ok in SUA, Canada, Mexic. GM merge ok in SUA si Asia dar are probleme majore in Europa datorita lipsei de profitabilitate a marcii Opel.

Cat il priveste pe Ferdinand Piech, are avantajul de a conduce un grup german. Piata din Germania este cea mai mare din Europa si beneficiaza de cele mai bune conditii din partea guvernului. Dincolo de conjunctura de moment insa, este mostenitorul de drept al dinastiei Porsche. Prosperitatea acestei familii are stranse legaturi cu era nazista si cu tot felul de implicatii in cele mai importante loje masonice. De-a lungul anilor marcile Porsche, Audi si VW au fost in diverse situatii financiare stanjenitoare (ca sa nu zic in prag de faliment). Si-au revenit pentru ca interesele din spate sunt mult prea mari.

Aceiasi poveste este si in spatele familiei Agnelli asa ca nu imi fac griji pentru viitorul marcilor din portofoliul FGA.

Nu il compara pe Marchione care este un angajat care isi face treaba ca la carte cu Piech care este actionar si foloseste cu totul alte mijloace. Din punctul meu de vedere Marchione este cu cateva clase peste Piech. Ferdinad Piech este pentru mine un Fuhrer care conduce un auto reich.

Daca lucrurile astea le discutam doar prin comparatii superficiale intre masinutele unui grup sau al altuia... ma retrag din dialog.

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013, 17:07 
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Razvane, poate ai dreptate, poate nu (din principiu nu imi plac teoriile conspiratiei cu loje masonice, bla-bla, dar nici nu am argumente sa te contrazic).
Topicul insa aici nu e care e mai tare in c***e - Seniore Marchionne, Herr Piech, Toyoda-san, sau mamele lor...
Problema e daca masinile astea se vand ca sa aduca profit si sa finanteze la randul lor R&D pentru noi masini, daca ne plac sau nu, servesc doar un scop functional sau si unul estetic, de feeling, daca ai de unde sa alegi mai mult decat doua lesinate de modele care deja sunt invechite...
Cam astea sunt problemele Alfa, sincer ma doare in cot daca urmatoarea Alfa va fi facuta de Marchionne, sau de Piech, sau oricine o fi - atata timp cat va fi o masina cu performante decente/in jumatatea de sus, cu feeling, pe care sa mi-o doresc, si care sa fie pe piata inainte ca actuala mea masina sa ajunga la programul rabla.

Parerea mea...

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013, 18:16 
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Si eu zic Razvane: nu te retrage! Da-mi argumente, convinge-ma, minte-ma frumos ( :tongue: ), am nevoie de asta, fiindca vreau sa cred in viitorul Alfa, eventual intr-un grup italian.
Doar ca, in ultimii vreo 3-4 ani, de cand scriu eu aici, omuletul Marchionne e cvasi-inexistent pentru Alfa, nu ma poti contrazice (eu sunt inginer, am o aplecare catre fapte si logica). E prea mult timp de cand marca asta isi pierde suflul si, sa ma ierte Dumnezeu, nu inteleg de ce?!

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013, 18:25 
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N-ai priceput: e criza, nu intelegi? :)


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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013, 18:39 
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mda.criza

la italieni , se manifesta destul de serios criza ,fiind si ei condusi tot de niste natarai.plus ca nici polulatia nu e in regula la capitolul munca , e un fel de ..romanie cu alta palarie (aceiasi tiganie).

alfa romeo ca nume ar avea o sansa daca s ar fabrica in germania , ar intregi putin ecuatia unei masini excelente. un design si o frumusete aparte , asamblata intr o fabrica germana care tine foarte mult la standarde si calitate . italienii ca si noi sant vorba lunga...saracia omului.

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 17 Feb 2013, 00:07 
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Nu nu, VW nu o duce bine pentru ca au umplut strazile de audi, vw, skoda, ci pentru ca sunt interese masonice in spatelor lor.

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 17 Feb 2013, 00:36 
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Nu stiu, nu ma pricep la masonerie, nici prea multi prieteni masoni nu cred ca am, dar ma gandesc ca daca si-ar fi umflat ei muschii, Rolls Royce, Bentley si Jaguar nu ar fi trecut prin umilinta de a fi cumparati de niste parveniti, de niste desculti, niste nimeni, la urma urmei. Nu-mi inchipui ca prea multi masoni din astia s-au nascut in familii de indieni sau de posesori de VW Golf.

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 18 Feb 2013, 00:08 
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Razvan se referea la vremuri mai indepartate, in care masoni/nemasoni...niste interese politice/financiare/etc nu au lasat marca WV sa dispara, chiar daca existau toate premisele unui faliment al companiei. De fiecare cand a avut probleme financiare, mereu aparea un ajutor de ''undeva'' si firma isi revenea.

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2013, 00:27 
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comanr Quote:
la italieni , se manifesta destul de serios criza ,fiind si ei condusi tot de niste natarai.plus ca nici polulatia nu e in regula la capitolul munca , e un fel de ..romanie cu alta palarie (aceiasi tiganie).

alfa romeo ca nume ar avea o sansa daca s ar fabrica in germania , ar intregi putin ecuatia unei masini excelente. un design si o frumusete aparte , asamblata intr o fabrica germana care tine foarte mult la standarde si calitate . italienii ca si noi sant vorba lunga...saracia omului.
Exista multe stereotipuri care nu mai sunt in ziua de azi validate de realitate. Comparativ la numarul de ore lucrate, germanii petrec mult mai putin timp la servici decat italienii, parca in medie cu 4 sau 5 ore pe saptamana (ceea ce e imens). Calitatea? hmmm, managerii de tip nou au foarte mare succes in Germania si e una dintre tarile care au imbratisat cu putere teoria la moda in ziua de azi care spune ca o firma exista in primul rand ptr. a-si satisface actionarii. VAG is a telling story, nici o alta firma din industria auto nu a reusit atat de rapid sa reduca calitatea dar maximizandu-si veniturile si vanzarile in acelasi timp. Nu vad cum o Alfa construita in Germania (vorba vine, ca oricum n-ar construi-o acolo) ar fi mai buna decat una facuta in US.
Comparatia intre Romania si Italia (cel putin aia de Nord) e iarasi extrem de fortata.
Revenind la comparatia Piech-Marchionne, hmmm...care e mai bun intre Mourinho si Abramovici? Managerul sau ownerul? Razvan a explicat clar diferentele de pozitie intre cei doi, habar n-am cine e echivalentul lui Marchionne la VAG, insa clar comparam mere cu pere aici. Faptul ca Alfa mai exista in ziua de azi (cu cele doua modele) e meritul lui Marchionne, altfel ar fi fost de mult istorie. Si da, sa nu produci decat doua modele e cateodata mai bine decat a produce inzecit, cum ar zice o vorba din popor, decat mult si fara rost, mai bine putin si prost :)

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2013, 01:43 
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dand Quote:
comanr Quote:

Comparatia intre Romania si Italia (cel putin aia de Nord) e iarasi extrem de fortata.
La modul general vorbind:
Ba nu e deloc fortata, ci este chiar adevarata. Este adevarat ca in Nord lucrurile sunt un pic diferite, dar nu in totalitate. Absolut TOATE persoanele care au fost in Italia si cu care am avut eu discutii, impartasesc aceeasi idee de baza - cea spusa de comanr.


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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2013, 01:59 
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Tupac, eu nu vorbeam (doar) din ce mi-au zis altii. Am avut 4 proiecte in Italia (ce-i drept, toate in Milano) si am petrecut ceva vreme acolo astfel incat sa-mi dau seama ca e o comparatie fortata. Ca sa te parafrazez, si in cazul meu, TOATE persoanele care au fost in Italia de Nord si cu care am avut eu discutii, impartasesc aceeasi idee de baza - cea spusa de mine :)
We agree to disagree intr-un final, ceea ce nu e deloc surprinzator. Eu fac parte din 'talibanii' Alfei si admiratorii Italiei :) . Insa am facut ceva mai mult decat 'talk the talk', am si 'walked the walk' (daca-mi permiti).

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2013, 09:10 
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Nordu e nord, sudul e sud valabil si la noi...corect aici.
exista exceptii mereu , exista oameni educati , nu neg dar conteaza si cine I conduce.cand cativa mai rasariti si muncitori hranesc multi oligofreni ai o problema.

In auto sansele sa scoti lucruri proaste cresc odata cu numarul de modele.la alfa au ramas la fel numai ca ei nu au scos modele.
acum vad aroganta asta 4c.mare kkt, e ca si cum ai spune ca renault a mai prezentat un prototip verde.

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2013, 21:28 
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Articol din automotive news, nu stiu cat timp va fi disponibil, asa ca il postez in intregime aici :
automotive news Quote:
Alfa Romeo reboot marks tough road for Fiat recovery.

The Limited-edition 4C is a key model in Alfa's overhaul.

GENEVA/DETROIT (Reuters) -- Sergio Marchionne does not walk on water. Nevertheless, it may require a miracle to pull off the Fiat chief's latest gambit: Take his sporty Alfa Romeo brand global with more expensive models and triple its sales volume by 2016 -- after years of losses.

To add extra spice to the challenge, which takes place as European car sales plummet to 17-year-lows, the new Alfas will be built in Italy, where labor and material costs are far higher than in the United States, Asia or Eastern Europe.
The plan is however about far more than the fate of the Alfa brand. It represents Fiat's only real hope of combating a collapse in its home market and breathing new life into idled factories. Should it fail, and the new cars flop, the company that Italians view as a cornerstone of their economy will have little choice but to put thousands of employees out of work and tip entire communities into turmoil.
Marchionne has form where ailing brands are concerned. The 60-year old has been widely hailed for his 2009 acquisition and subsequent turnaround of bankrupt U.S. automaker Chrysler. However his announcement late last year of a strategic overhaul of the 103-year-old Alfa Romeo brand -- which Fiat acquired in 1986 and has since failed to revive despite repeated attempts -- has been greeted with skepticism.
"I wouldn't write the plan off," said Bernstein analyst Max Warburton, noting the Alfa brand's resilience despite years of neglect. "But get it wrong, or find consumers aren't interested, and it will be a financial catastrophe."

Resurrection scheme

Marchionne is betting on Alfa because he believes it can deliver the global profile that Fiat cannot and far greater sales volumes than Maserati.
Alfa's overhaul comes with a 1 billion euro ($1.3 billion) price tag to pay for the introduction of five new models by 2016, and a revamp of the brand's two existing compact cars.
Leading the project is the limited-edition 4C sports car, a compact two-seater which makes its public debut at the Geneva auto show on Tuesday and goes on sale later this year. Pricing is rumored to be between 50,000 and 60,000 euros.
The 4C, competing with the Porsche Cayman and Boxster, will be joined in 2015 by the Spider roadster, co-developed with Mazda and priced from less than 23,000 euros ($30,000), and a new sedan expected to share underpinnings with Chrysler and Ferrari-sourced engines with the new Maserati Ghibli.
Another weapon will be the Giulia, which will be unveiled in 2015 and the first mainstream Alfa model to be sold in the United States since it quit that market in 1995. The Giulia sedan and wagon will be followed in 2016 by replacements for the Giulietta and MiTo hatchbacks.
Marchionne believes this strategy will help Fiat raise Alfa's annual sales to 300,000 cars by 2016. While that goal is down dramatically from a previous target of 500,000 cars by 2014, it still looks a stretch from the 92,000 Alfas sold in 2012 -- the worst showing in more than 40 years -- and the brand's previous best of just over 200,000 sales in 2000.

Barclays Capital is among those doubtful of the scheme.

"It's not the first time we have heard an ambitious volume plan for Alfa," the investment bank said in a recent note to investors. "Volumes were supposed to be 400,000 in 2014 rather than the 70,000 that seems likely."
The top global auto forecasting houses are equally unconvinced. IHS Automotive and LMC Automotive are projecting annual sales of around 230,000 Alfas by 2016.
"Alfa is going to have a fight on its hands in luring luxury buyers into its vehicles," said LMC senior analyst Joseph Langley. "Charging a premium and leaning on heritage is not enough in the highly competitive luxury segments, as Cadillac [and] Lincoln have experienced."
Marchionne himself has said Alfa's task will be difficult. The division has had six bosses since his own 2004 appointment, and none of them have been able to move the needle much.
"I left Alfa because I couldn't get the green light for a real product plan with the right motors for the right clients ... who are now driving BMWs," said an executive who ran Alfa less than a decade ago.
"It was clear to me there was a lack of resources. Alfa had become an empty box."

Eye on Audi

European car demand is expected to contract even further this year, squeezing mass-market brands still harder between excess product and cut-throat pricing, while a strong euro adds further complications.
Marchionne is also up against luxury buyers' preference for well-established German premium brands such as BMW and Audi, each of which sells around 1.5 million cars a year.
While Fiat has struggled to find cash for Alfa, its deep-pocketed rival Volkswagen has become the envy of the industry for its lengthy but sure-footed transformation of Audi from a dowdy also-ran to a high-tech cash cow.

The upscale VW brand's rebirth may now serve as a role model for Alfa salespeople.

VW Chairman Ferdinand Piech has made no secret he thinks Alfa would be a good fit within the group's expansive portfolio of brands, where it could benefit from their pooled vehicle architectures and technology. But Marchionne has refused to sell Alfa, and observers think he is unlikely to change his mind.
That's because he sees Alfa as the lynchpin of his broader plan to boost European production by 800,000 cars a year. He expects Alfa to account for nearly 40 percent of that additional output, with many of those being higher-margin cars shipped to North America and other export markets.
Industry observers aren't convinced the strategy will play out as the Fiat boss envisages.
"Moving Alfa away from the mass market is the biggest risk in Fiat's turnaround plan" said a fund manager. "Until now, all their plans for Alfa Romeo have fallen below target."

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2013, 14:14 
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Incepe sa se miste ceva in ceea ce priveste marketingul :Alfa Romeo va deveni sponsorul echipei de fotbal Eintracht Frankfurt.

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2013, 15:04 
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Informatia vad ca este si pe site-ul oficial al echipei si incepand din sezonul urmator vor avea "Alfa Romeo" pe tricouri.


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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2013, 15:15 
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marius Quote:
Incepe sa se miste ceva in ceea ce priveste marketingul :Alfa Romeo va deveni sponsorul echipei de fotbal Eintracht Frankfurt.
Hihi, deci mi-am gasit favorita in Bundesliga, numai sa nu retrogradeze :)

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2013, 15:21 
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Momentan sunt pe locul 4, ultimul care duce in preliminarii UCL.


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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2013, 09:57 
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How Alfa Romeo plans to triple sales in the next 3 years

L.E.
autonews Quote:
With fresh product and by expanding into new markets including the United States, the brand can dramatically improve sales, Vignon believes. "With our current segment coverage and our geographical footprint, we compete in about 5 percent of the global market," he said. By 2016 Vignon wants Alfa to compete in 32 percent of the global market.
:roll2: :roll2:

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2013, 10:41 
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Cristian_Nita Quote:
How Alfa Romeo plans to triple sales in the next 3 years

L.E.
autonews Quote:
With fresh product and by expanding into new markets including the United States, the brand can dramatically improve sales, Vignon believes. "With our current segment coverage and our geographical footprint, we compete in about 5 percent of the global market," he said. By 2016 Vignon wants Alfa to compete in 32 percent of the global market.
:roll2: :roll2:
@Cristi : Pai si de ce nu ai trecut asta la funny stuff ? :lol:

Eu cred ca e o greseala de calcul matematic sau de exprimare/traducere, fie a lui Vignon, fie a celor de la "autonews", deoarece, cele 300.000 de masini pe care spera Alfa sa le vanda anual, incepand cu 2016, sigur nu reprezinta 32% din piata mondiala de masini, care cica e de vreo 60 milioane buc (2011/2012).

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2013, 11:32 
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Hmmm... mie mi se pare destul de logic.

Momentan concureaza pe niste piete care insumate aduna 5% din piata mondiala (pietele pe care concureaza, nu vanzarile). Ei vor sa intre pe alte piete astfel in cat pietele pe care vor concura vor reprezenta 32% din poata mondiala.

Astfel, vor sa creasca de 3 ori vanzarile, crescand de 6,5 ori expunerea... ce e hilar aici?

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2013, 11:49 
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Radeti voi radeti, dar in 2016 s-ar putea sa asistam si la o oferta de cumparare de catre Alfa Romeo a grupului VAG :sig: , asa ca nu trebuie sa ne mire deloc astfel de stiri.


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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2013, 11:54 
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@ gxg : Stiu sa citesc si eu. :wink:

Nu e nimic hilar in legatura cu procentele de acolo si expunerea la care ei viseaza, insa eu nu cred in planul lor maret si mi se pare, da, hilar. :ban:

Au mai facut ei planuri in trecut, vanzari de sute de mii de alfe si nu au reusit sa atinga targetul. Acelasi Marchionne tipa ca vanzarile sunt praf in Europa, ne spune ca piata auto din Europa nu o sa isi revina pana in anul 2000-9000, toamna. Citeam ca vanzarile auto din Italia nu au mai inregsitrat un nivel asa scazut de zeci de ani.

Ok, se bazeaza pe USA si pe China. Vom vedea. Conform previziunilor anterioare, de cati ani trebuia sa fie Alfa Romeo prezenta in USA? :scratch:

(inca) nu m-am transformat intr-un hater alfa romeo, dar nici un mare fan nu (mai) sunt, cel putin nu sunt acel gen de fan care lauda orice initiativa, orice produs, indiferent daca e bun/buna sau nu.
:peace:

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2013, 12:03 
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Cristi, ai trunchiat informatia si ai manipulat-o cum ai vrut.
GXG a interpretat corect. Daca citesti intreg articolul reiese destul de clar, zic eu, ceea ce a exprimat colegul GXG. Din paragraful ala citat de tine se paote intelege si la ce te-ai gandit tu.

Acum, daca sunt vorbe in vant sau nu, asta e o alta discutie, dar mesajul e clar.

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2013, 12:05 
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aaaaa, scopul meu nu a fost sa manipulez ceva, am citat doar ce mi se pare funny. Daca vroiam sa manipulez ceva nu dadeam linkul.

a fost la vedere totul, eu asa consider, altfel, daca cineva considera ca nu, o mod poate sa stearga postul.

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2013, 12:21 
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Joined: 29 Oct 2008, 12:44
Posts: 6688
Location: Brasov... oarecum.
Nu e nevoie ca postul sa fie sters. Am vrut doar sa punctez ca in functie de ce parti dintr-o informatie se prezinta, aceasta poate fi interpretata in diverse moduri.

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