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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2012, 12:33 
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in timp ce unii dintre noi stabilesc pe topicul asta cine e pasionat si cine nu , cine are voie sa scrie ceva si cine nu , ce planuri are Marchionne si tata mare , pe topicul asta viewtopic.php?f=43&t=16632&hilit=ce+imi+place" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; nu s-a mai scris de vreun an jumate ...
nu mi-as lua o Alfa noua pentru ca nu m-ar bucura mai mult decat cea pe care o am acum ( si nici macar decat 56-le vandut ) . dar ma bucur de Alfa mea veche asa cum e ea . nu sunt pasionat dar Alfa mi-a ramas in inima si nu va iesi de acolo prea curand . atata timp cat am una ma bag si in seama pe forumul asta ...


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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2012, 12:55 
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Mda... all hail the mega-manager.
Unii se plang de chestii similare si la alti constructori...
Quote:
Daca vine careva si-mi spune, nu esti multumit de masina, nu mai cumpara BMW... problema e ca aceste bube sunt la majoritatea constructorilor care in ultimii 20 de ani au trecut din ce in ce la o productie de masa larga pentru o societate de consumatori prosti si needucati, iar acesti constructori nu mai dau doi bani pe onoare, faima, pasiune, etc si nu conteaza decat cifrele.

Cel mai mare flagel si cei mai mari criminali ai societatii contemporane si imediat urmatoare o constituie finantistii lui peste prajit care ne-au transformat pe toti in niste marionete si toate belelele de la ei pleaca.

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alfas don't break down... they stop to be admired
my fiat is fantastic:
Ex: 156 SW 1.9 JTD 16V
Ex: 159 SW 2.4 JTD Q-tronic
Ex. Jeep GC 2005 3.0 crd
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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2012, 17:07 
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O.K., sa revenim...
Pe scurt calendarul aparitiei noilor modele in urmatorii 3 ani ar trebui sa arate cam asa:

2013: 4C, facelift pentru MiTo si Giulietta
2014: noua berlina de segment E (pe platforma lui Maserati Ghibli), 4C Spider
2015: Giulia, Giulia SW, Kamal, Spider (platforma comuna cu Mazda MX-5).

Inteleg scepticismul multora, dar sa nu uitam ca (si) rabdarea este o virtute. :peace:

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2012, 17:35 
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Location: Brasov... oarecum.
Nu era pe paginile anterioare un articol in care zicea ca se anuleaza dezvoltarea pentru Kamal?

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2012, 17:39 
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Daca luam la puricat thread-ul asta de la inceput, o sa avem multe surprize, oricum nu cred sa arunce pe piata un model de nisa ca 4C-ul pentru ca apoi sa nu vina si cu modelele de volum.

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2012, 17:46 
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Location: Brasov... oarecum.
Au facut-o partial cu 8C-ul: au lansat Mito si Giulietta si apoi s-au oprit. Adica ce vreau sa spun este ca nu au scos o gama. Au azvarlit 2 modele cu cate o singura varianta de caroserie care sa se descurce.

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2012, 12:40 
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Eu zic ca de abia in 2013 putem sa mai discutam pe topicul asta si sa comentam reusitele sau nereusitele planuri ale lui Marchionne. Eventual, dupa salonul auto de la Geneva... parca asta era primul, calendaristic vorbind.

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2012, 12:55 
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apropos
credeti ca ar fi util un topic cu deplasarea la Geneva ca vad ca sunt cativa care merg . o intalnire AC peste hotare :) ?
cu putin noroc as putea fi si eu prezent . poate obtinem ceva oferte mai bune pentru grup .


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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2012, 13:15 
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In principiu ar fi o chestie foarte faina, daca am reusi mergem impreuna la Geneva. Eu as fi pentru o astfel de deplasare!

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2012, 16:49 
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Referitor la Geneva, cel putin eu si Kali vom merge. Chiar acum 5 minute discutam despre a cumpara biletele de avion. Costa aprox. 190 eur dus intors plus restul costurilor (cazare, intrare, mancare etc) Daca sunt altii care vor sa mearga poate renuntam la avion si facem road trip insa ar trebui sa va decideti foarte repede.

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Razvan Patrascu

-------------------------------------
Alfa Romeo 159 1.9 JTDm 120 CP
Alfa Romeo GTV V6 3.2 270CP
Alfa Romeo 147 1.9 JTD 101CP
Alfa Romeo 33 boxer 1.7 16V QV 140CP
Ex. Alfa Romeo GTV V6 2.0 Turbo 240CP


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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2012, 17:12 
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De acord . Poate mutati ultimele posturi intr-un nou topic cu Geneva 2013 . Hai sa facem lista ...
Ce date sunt ca sa cer o oferta avion+cazare ? O sa cer pentru 6 pers initial si vedem dupa cati suntem


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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2012, 11:40 
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KALI Quote:
2013: 4C, facelift pentru MiTo si Giulietta
2014: noua berlina de segment E (pe platforma lui Maserati Ghibli), 4C Spider
2015: Giulia, Giulia SW, Kamal, Spider (platforma comuna cu Mazda MX-5).
Automotive News Europe prezinta situatia actuala si planurile de viitor ale alfa romeo. Intrucat cei de la Automotive News Europe au prostul obicei sa mute articolele interesante in aria "pay per view", gasiti intreg articolul mai jos, in quote.

Pe scurt:

2013 - alfa romeo 4c
2015 - alfa romeo Giulia, inlocuitoarea alfei romeo 159, construita pe platforma CUSW (sedan & wagon)
2016 - next Giulietta, construita pe platforma CUSW
2014+ - RWD sedan (based on the new Maserati Ghibli large sedan)
2015 - alfa romeo roadster ?! "But who knows if the car will be built? Mazda and Fiat haven't finalized the deal yet."




Alfa Romeo's last chance
autonews Quote:
Alfa Romeo has been a never-ending headache for Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne.

"The Alfa issue is complicated and simple at the same time. Alfa is a great, world-renowned brand, but it is selling fewer cars than planned," he told me during our first interview in October 2005.

Seven years and two relaunches later, Fiat's sports car subsidiary remains a Rubik's Cube that the workaholic CEO just can't seem to solve.

This year, Alfa will sell fewer than 100,000 cars. That would be the brand's worst performance since 1969. On Oct. 30, Marchionne announced a new plan for Alfa that calls for the introduction of nine new models in the next four years. In the past, Marchionne has been bullish with his predictions for future Alfa sales volumes.

Alfa’s product offensive will begin next year with the limited-edition 4C coupe.

His last plan for Alfa, announced in April 2010, predicted that the brand's sales would rise to 500,000 vehicles by 2014. This time, Marchionne refrained from giving a sales target and declined to say much about the nine new models. The new plan is a sort of declaration of intent – with no specifics.

Not for sale

The only thing Marchionne was adamant about when we discussed Alfa last month was that, despite several recent overtures from Volkswagen to buy the automaker, he has no intention to sell. "There are some things that are not for sale. If you went to [VW Chairman] Ferdinand Piech and asked to buy Audi, he would tell you it's not for sale," Marchionne said. He also believes Piech wouldn't be willing to discuss a selling price for Audi so why should he provide a price for Alfa.

"I have zero interest in selling Alfa. Period," Marchionne said. Maybe Marchionne should keep an open mind on a sale because Alfa, with its limited portfolio, is slowly dying.

Its current range includes the MiTo, a rework of the Fiat Punto subcompact that doesn't have the same DNA as a true Alfa, and the Giulietta hatchback, which is a true Alfa but does not have a wagon variant so the brand loses countless sales in Europe.

Could you imagine Audi deciding not to sell a wagon version of the A3? No chance!

That's right – Alfa has just two models to sell. By comparison Ferrari sells five different models and Maserati offers three. Alfa's product range is also getting old. The MiTo was launched in June 2008 and the Giulietta arrived in March 2010. It's no surprise that Alfa's sales are spiraling downward.

Simple solution


To survive, and eventually to grow, Alfa simply needs product, product and more product. Some 30 months ago, Marchionne said that Fiat's alliance with Chrysler was the key to Alfa's relaunch. So far, Alfa has been helping Chrysler more than vice versa. As part of the deal to rescue the U.S. automaker, Fiat gave Chrysler the Giulietta's architecture, which has been widened and lengthened to underpin the Dodge Dart.

Starting next year the architecture, which is now called CUSW (short for compact U.S. wide), will underpin the Chrysler 200 mid-sized sedan and Jeep Cherokee/Liberty medium SU V successors.

CUSW will be extended to another half-dozen Chrysler Group derivatives in the years to come. The Americanized version of the Giulietta's architecture will come back to Italy. Starting in 2015, the platform will underpin the long-overdue Giulia mid-sized sedan and wagon. The models will replace the Europe-only 159 range that was discontinued last year. The architecture also will be used on the next Giulietta, which is due in 2016 and will be made to meet North American standards so it can be sold there.

In terms of architectures, Marchionne delivered on the promise he made in April 2010, but with a twist. Originally, U.S. production of the Giulia was supposed to start this year.

Now the car will be built in Italy to help save jobs in Fiat's home country, but output of the car won't begin until 2015.

Marchionne defends the adjustments he made to the 2010 plan by saying that it took longer than he expected to get Chrysler's problems under control. "I feel a lot more comfortable with the Chrysler of today than I did two years ago," he said. He also reiterated something he's been saying for a while: "Fiat without Chrysler would not be able to execute an Alfa plan. It's that simple."

Too late?

It can't be that simple, because if it was we would have already seen the long-promised rear-wheel-drive roadster that is supposed to remind us of the iconic 1966 Alfa Duetto Spider. This model has been planned for years. Alfa enthusiasts have been told they will have to wait until 2015 for an Alfa roadster, which will be built by Mazda in Japan as a sister model to the next MX-5/Miata. But who knows if the car will be built? Mazda and Fiat haven't finalized the deal yet.

Another car that continues to be delayed is a rear-drive flagship sedan that would reconnect Alfa to its roots. This model is not expected until late 2014 and it will be another hand-me-down from a Fiat subsidiary as it will be based on the new Maserati Ghibli large sedan. Marchionne's desire and determination to turn around Alfa appear sincere, but it seems very unlikely that a very weakened Alfa -- even with a nine-car range -- will be able to compete against brands such as Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz.

This is truly the last hope for Alfa under Fiat. To use one of Marchionne's favorite expressions, he and the company need to act "at the speed of light," if they want to save the 102-year old brand. Any more delays or second-guessing will probably lead to a sale or a collapse with the words on the tombstone reading: R.I.P. Alfa Romeo. A great, world-renowned brand that died from lack of product.

:samui:

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2012, 12:23 
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Vom vedea la Geneva cat de mult si-au dat silinta cu 4C-ul. Este un model cheie pentru planurile Alfa. Trebuie sa poata lupta cot la cot cu referintele clasei pentru a putea deschide apetitul unor viitori clienti pentru modelele de volum.

In rest, speculatii mai mult sau mai putin superficiale.

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Razvan Patrascu

-------------------------------------
Alfa Romeo 159 1.9 JTDm 120 CP
Alfa Romeo GTV V6 3.2 270CP
Alfa Romeo 147 1.9 JTD 101CP
Alfa Romeo 33 boxer 1.7 16V QV 140CP
Ex. Alfa Romeo GTV V6 2.0 Turbo 240CP


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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2012, 12:33 
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"with the speed of light"? 2015?
:uhuh: Ege, iarta-ma, nu ma pot abtine...

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Ex: Giulietta my2017 2.0 JTDM-2, 175 CP
Ex: Giulietta 2.0 JTDM-2, 170 CP
Ex: FURIA ALBA, AR 159 JTDM, 210 CP


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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2012, 19:22 
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Oh, Doamne, nu din nou.. daca te referi la noul Spider cand zici 2015, la ce te astepti, sa iasa in productie peste noapte?!
Ia vezi cat a durat 916le: http://alfaclub.ro/forum/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=17963" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012, 09:20 
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Poate se referea la 159?! Nu vreau să reiau iarăşi despre când a fost anunţată prima dată...
În fine, asta e, slowly falling on the dark side of the force :ziped:

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012, 15:53 
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Nu contesta nimeni ca nu s-ar fi putut misca "mai cu talent" in cazul Giuliei sau a noii berline de segment E, pe de alta parte, ca inca mai e de lucru la ele nu mai e o noutate pentu nimeni, nu inteleg de unde atata surprindere. Cat despre contextul general, l-a explicat Razvan de atatea ori pe topicul asta, stiu ca are obiceiul sa scrie mult, dar merita citit. Si nu va mai uitati in curte la VAG sau la BMW, marci care-s "pe val" cum s-ar spune, pentru o marca aflata in declin lucrurile stau alftel.
@catastrat: cu parere de rau o spun, insa urmatoarele modele Alfa, oricand vor aparea ele, cred ca vor fi niste modele de compropis. Cum sunt oarecum si MiTo sau Giulietta, pe care multi dintre puristi le blameaza.

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ex Stelvio 2.0T | GTV 916 3.0 V6 | GTV 916 2.0TS | Spider 916 2.0TS | MiTo 1.4TB | Spider 939 2.4JTDm | Brera 2.4JTDm | Spider 916 2.0TS | GT 1.9mJTD | 147 1.6TS


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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012, 16:22 
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Da, stiu ca asa e - si tocmai de aia ziceam chestia cu "dark side of the force"...
Oi fi eu fan Alfa, dar pana/daca or scoate masina de clasa pe care o urmaresc eu, actuala mea masina o sa fie buna de dat la programul rabla...
Asa ca incet-incet incep sa ma uit in curtea competitiei - si stiu ca la fel ca mine fac multi, din pacate pentru Alfa... :disgust1:

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012, 16:44 
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ALXege Quote:
@catastrat: cu parere de rau o spun, insa urmatoarele modele Alfa, oricand vor aparea ele, cred ca vor fi niste modele de compropis. Cum sunt oarecum si MiTo sau Giulietta, pe care multi dintre puristi le blameaza.
Noroc cu "oarecum" asta. Depinde din ce pct de vedere privesti. Si in discutie intra mai multi factori de care sa tii cont : criza, finantarile, profitul, oportunitatile in viitor ( apetitul clientilor de cumparare in viitor ).
Alfa s-a limitat la a produce ceva ce ar mentine un interes oarecare, plecand de 159, 147 ( ultimele modele de productie). Alfa avea nevoie de o continuitate cu care sa tina lucrurile la cald. Totusi, MiTo QV si Giulietta QV au un cuvand de spus. Tinand cont de factorii de mai sus nu le gasesc modele de compromis, ci modele de continuitate.
catastrat Quote:
Asa ca incet-incet incep sa ma uit in curtea competitiei - si stiu ca la fel ca mine fac multi, din pacate pentru Alfa... :disgust1:
Giulietta QV nu este un downgrade, plecand de la faptul ca ai un 159 2.4.


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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012, 16:53 
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Catastrat: te inteleg perfect, de aceea m-am si adresat catre tine; din pacate asta este realitatea, trebuie sa o luam ca atare!
ionutp: este un downgrade in privinta clasei din care face parte, in curtea competitiei presupun ca se uita la A4/5, Seria 3/5, si nu la A3 sau seria1..

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4C | Spider S4 2.0
ex Stelvio 2.0T | GTV 916 3.0 V6 | GTV 916 2.0TS | Spider 916 2.0TS | MiTo 1.4TB | Spider 939 2.4JTDm | Brera 2.4JTDm | Spider 916 2.0TS | GT 1.9mJTD | 147 1.6TS


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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012, 17:06 
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ALXege Quote:
ionutp: este un downgrade in privinta clasei din care face parte, in curtea competitiei presupun ca se uita la A4/5, Seria 3/5, si nu la A3 sau seria1..
Asta o pot intelege, desi as vrea sa aud daca a mers cu un QV. Intr-adevar, de la Alfa nu are variante in aceeasi clasa. Dar poate fi surprins placut de ceea ce are Alfa in curte acum ( motorizari de top ).


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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012, 17:19 
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E o mare diferenta intre a privi lucrurile prin ochii unui actionar si a privi lucrurile prin ochii unui pasionat. Noi ne-am transformat toti in finantisti, ne doare sufletul ca familia Elkann nu are profitul pe care si-l doreste si suferim alaturi de Marchionne atunci cand balantele nu ies cum ar trebuie. Intelegem perfect ca asa e de bun simt, sa se amane investitiile, sa se reduca riscurile, daca e posibil sa se produca doar in Sri Lanka, ca aia sunt seriosi, nu lenesi ca italienii. Foarte matur din partea noastra, dar daca stau sa ma gandesc, foarte gresit.
Eu sunt fan, deci ratiunea e undeva pe locul doi, vreau ceva mai multa implicare si mai putina detasare, vreau sa vad riscuri asumate, masini facute de dragul de a te putea mandri cu ele, ca iti poarta blazonul, nu masini care sa aduca profituri mari pe unitate vanduta, produse pe platforme comune cu inca vreo 3, 4, preferabil 5 alti producatori. Vreau sa-l vad pe Elkann cum isi face averea praf scotand pe banda rulanta masini care sa domine in toate competitiile, pe care sa ti le pui pe pereti, in postere, care sa se produca in pierdere.
Hai sa fim toti rationali, sa incurajam productia masinilor fiabile, corecte, profitabile si vom vedea cu stupoare cum dispare pasiunea. Am zis ca nu il mai critic pe Marchionne si nu o fac, omul e un profesionist si isi face treaba, dar vorba aia :"Cainele moare de drum lung si prostul de grija altuia". Pai eu nu sunt fan Alfa ca sa vad cum marca asta isi pierde stralucirea, cum toate argumentele mele sunt la timpul trecut in timp ce afacerea prospera.

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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012, 17:22 
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Quote:
Asta o pot intelege, desi as vrea sa aud daca a mers cu un QV. Intr-adevar, de la Alfa nu are variante in aceeasi clasa. Dar poate fi surprins placut de ceea ce are Alfa in curte acum ( motorizari de top ).
Le-am condus pe ambele inchiriate, in jur de 10 zile fiecare - e adevarat cu nu versiunea QV, dar pe mine nu motorul/sportivitatea ma deranjeaza, ci clasa din care fac parte, asa cum zice Alex.
M-as uita la MiTo ca masina de oras, poate si la Giulietta ca o a doua masina cu care sa ma dau, dar in nici un caz ca masina principala, din pacate...

P.S. @Valak :goodpost:

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Now: TFSI 310CP
ex: 159 Emozione 2.4 JTDm 210+CP
ex: 159 Distinctive 1.9 JTDm 150CP


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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012, 19:09 
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Valak Quote:
Vreau sa-l vad pe Elkann cum isi face averea praf scotand pe banda rulanta masini care sa domine in toate competitiile, pe care sa ti le pui pe pereti, in postere, care sa se produca in pierdere.
Nu cumva cam asta am vazut incepand inca de la seria 916, continuand apoi cu 156, 147, GT, Brera? Si uite unde au ajuns..
Nu trebuie sa fii finantist ca sa iti dai seama ca in felul asta sooner or later pui lacatul la poarta..

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ex Stelvio 2.0T | GTV 916 3.0 V6 | GTV 916 2.0TS | Spider 916 2.0TS | MiTo 1.4TB | Spider 939 2.4JTDm | Brera 2.4JTDm | Spider 916 2.0TS | GT 1.9mJTD | 147 1.6TS


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 Post subject: Re: Planurile Alfa Romeo
PostPosted: 16 Nov 2012, 21:32 
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Eu cred ca si actionarii s-ar bucura sa vada Giulietta SW si Mito facelift. Efort minim, efect... rezonabil. Sunt lucruri care sunt necesare, rational vorbind.
E frumos 4C, dar nu stiu cat va face el sa creasca vanzarile de Mito sau Giulietta.

_________________
alfas don't break down... they stop to be admired
my fiat is fantastic:
Ex: 156 SW 1.9 JTD 16V
Ex: 159 SW 2.4 JTD Q-tronic
Ex. Jeep GC 2005 3.0 crd
A6


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